Same firmware for NXT-G and NXC.

[mattallen37]

If you search Google you will find it has been a very big problem for many people for a long time! Some even had to return their bricks to Lego to get them sorted.

I tried both the NXT-G and Brick Center several times but neither could connect to the brick. Tried restarting the computer, resetting the brick, deleting then adding the brick back in through the devices manager but to no avail.

The problem is that Win 7 could not recognise it. First time I tried it was added, but as a digital camera! Perhaps it was confused by the screen, thinking it was a lens............ Later it just came up as 'unidentified', presumably because it was not supplying the signals that the OS expected. Since Windows could not identify the device type, it 'switched it off', thereby preventing any programs from finding it.

I then dusted off my ancient Dell laptop, which runs XP. Connected up first time & managed to get the Lego 1.29 firmware re-installed.

Well, I have heard many complaints about SAMBA, but it really is no big deal, as long as you know how to "fix" it. The problem is almost definitely the computer driver. Put the proper driver on the Win 7 computer, and it should be just dandy. That is why it works with no problems on the XP, because that computer DOES have the driver for the OS. I used to have all sorts of problems on Win 7 until I got the right drivers.

[aagruntpuddock]

...but it really is no big deal, as long as you know how to "fix" it......

But it was a big deal for you until you found out how to fix it, wasn't it?

[mattallen37]

...but it really is no big deal, as long as you know how to "fix" it......

But it was a big deal for you until you found out how to fix it, wasn't it?

Well, I fixed it before I even knew about upgrading the FW. The issue I was experiencing was that I could only get USB to work with one of the two NXT's I had at the time, but BT worked to some extent with both (BT still doesn't work right for me, and I'v tried almost everything I have heard of trying, except buying the $40 dongle from Lego). Both NXT's worked fine on XP, with USB, so I knew it was the computer/driver. That is when I made a nxtasy account, so I could find out a fix. I was then directed to the ROBOTC website to get the proper driver. It was long after that, that I attempted to upgrade FW. Thus far, I am thankful I have never been stumped by SAMBA (though many times I have had a "clicking brick").

[afanofosc]

If you search Google you will find it has been a very big problem for many people for a long time! Some even had to return their bricks to Lego to get them sorted.

Clicking brick syndrome is not at all the same thing as your NXT clicking in SAMBA mode. A brick clicking in SAMBA mode is very much a normal state of affairs for the NXT when it is waiting to download a new firmware image. Is it possible to panic in this situation and thoroughly screw up your machine when your NXT is in this state if you read scary information on the web and don't really know what you are doing? Yes. Should you scare other people away from flashing their firmware with horror stories about how hard it was to get yours working again? Absolutely not. Is flashing a firmware image completely safe and without any risk of damaging your NXT? No, but it is usually foolproof and more than safe enough that the benefits far outweigh the risks.

I tried both the NXT-G and Brick Center several times but neither could connect to the brick. Tried restarting the computer, resetting the brick, deleting then adding the brick back in through the devices manager but to no avail.

BricxCC will say that it was unable to connect to the brick when it is in SAMBA mode. That is completely normal and expected. Will you be able to compile and download programs to the NXT in SAMBA mode? Definitely not, but if you look at the Tools menu you will see that the Download Firmware option is enabled. On my Windows 7 64 bit system with the correct version of the Fantom drivers installed I have never had a problem with BricxCC installing a new firmware image on the NXT that has not been immediately fixed by simply repeating the firmware download process a second time. The latest test release of BricxCC should be even more robust in this regard and likely will rarely, if ever, fail on the first download attempt. Usually a failure only occurs due to the plug-and-play found new hardware toast popping up and Windows configuring the driver for the NXT in SAMBA mode.

One thing I would recommend is never try to download the firmware if your NXT is connected through a hub instead of directly to one of your computer's powered USB ports. A lot of different USB devices have been known to have problems being correctly recognized by the operating system if they are underpowered due to being connected via an unpowered hub.

When in SAMBA mode the NXT should be listed as a LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Firmware Update Mode device. See the screenshots below.

lms_dev.jpg (92.53 KiB) Viewed 10645 times

lms_devid.jpg (44.66 KiB) Viewed 10645 times

No other vendor should be using the 03EB vendor ID that belongs to ATMEL. And there should not be any other drivers installed on your system that match the combined 03EB vendor ID and 6124 device ID for the NXT in SAMBA mode. http://www.linux-usb.org/usb.ids lists the combined vendor and device ID as at91sam SAMBA bootloader. In device manager it should show up as using the winusb.sys driver. The connection to this driver should be specified for the 03EB vendor ID and 6124 device ID in the fantom.inf file that was installed on your system when you correctly installed the latest version of the Fantom drivers from the LEGO MINDSTORMS support page.

lms_inf.jpg (85.4 KiB) Viewed 10645 times

Here's the correct driver link:

http://cache.lego.com/upload/contentTem ... 7C537F.zip

It is far more hazardous to fiddle around with drivers in your Device Manager when you don't know what you are doing than it is to flash a new firmware image on your NXT using BricxCC. You can very easily get your OS into a state where it won't recognize a USB device or it will think it is a camera and you'll have to resort to running XP on an old Dell laptop.

In summary, if you ever hear your brick clicking and it appears to not power on then first make sure you have the latest Fantom drivers for your OS installed then connect to a powered USB port on your computer then run BricxCC then click OK when it says it can't connect then choose Tools|Download Firmware and browse to a .rfw firmware image (standard or enhanced) and download it to your NXT.

If you have confused your OS about what driver should be used for the NXT when it is in SAMBA mode then point it at the fantom.inf file on your system. It should configure it as a LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Firmware Update Mode device using the winusb.sys driver.

hth,

John Hansen

[aagruntpuddock]

Lets just get this into perspective. I did NOT panic from clicking brick syndrome. I got an error message saying that the download had failed. I tried again. And again. And again.

It was only when I realised nothing was working (that I remembered hearing about this problem and put the brick to my ear - yes, it was ticking. I first heard about this problem some time ago so started searching for the answer I knew must be out there. Didn't find it but tried many of the suggestions, including using the Mindstorms program to download the firmware.

NOTHING worked and the main problem seemed to be that Win 7 had cut off all access to the brick, even after removing and re-installing it. I searched again and did find someone saying that Lego support suggested trying another computer and that worked. This seemed reasonable (by that time anything did) so I hauled out my Dell which had a different OS. And it worked.

In what way was any of this my fault?

"BricxCC will say that it was unable to connect to the brick when it is in SAMBA mode. That is completely normal and expected"

And I am supposed to know this? I use an option in a program and it tells me it has failed, even after repeated attempts so what am I to do? If my car fails to start am I supposed to understand that I have to put my foot on the brake and switch on the left indicator before re-trying?

And I was unable to 'mess about' or change any drivers because Windows reported that the correct divers were installed when I tried to upload them using that method.

"The latest test release of BricxCC should be even more robust in this regard and likely will rarely, if ever, fail on the first download attempt." - I was using the latest test release (no complaints, BricxCC is a brilliant bit of kit and I wish I had tried it years ago).

[afanofosc]

As far as I can tell you did not say "I tried downloading the firmware over and over again using BricxCC". You said it was unable to connect. That's normal. It is very not normal that the NXT in SAMBA mode is not recognized by Windows.

Nobody else running the latest Fantom drivers, to my recollection, has ever reported having Windows 7 not recognize the NXT in SAMBA mode unless they did really dangerous things like using the ATMEL SAMBA tools to fiddle directly with lock bits or sometimes doing weird things with NXTOSEK.

Your post came across to me as a warning for other people considering possibly flashing their NXT with the enhanced NBC/NXC firmware. You made it sound like your experience was not a bizarre out of the ordinary experience that very few people are likely to ever encounter. That's definitely not the case. 99.99% of the time flashing an NXT with a new firmware image is completely pain free and trivially easy. I am sorry that something weird and very peculiar to your situation happened to you and wish I could have helped you avoid that pain and anxiety.

Moving forward, you need to get your Windows 7 OS to recognize your NXT in firmware download mode so that this does not cause you problems in the future. To do that I would put your NXT in SAMBA mode and connect it to your PC via a powered USB port directly on your computer and see what driver Windows chooses for it. Also see what vendor and device ID it reports in Device Manager. Also reinstall the latest Fantom drivers from this URL:

http://cache.lego.com/upload/contentTem ... 7C537F.zip

If the NXT is not reported as a LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT Firmware Update Mode device but it has the correct vendor and device ID then force Windows to use the right driver by updating the driver and pointing Windows to the Fantom.inf file that was delivered by the Fantom driver installer on your PC. Once you get Windows to show the correct driver and device type for the NXT in SAMBA mode then you should be able to use BricxCC to download either the standard or enhanced firmware using the Tools|Download Firmware option.

I encourage you in the future to try posting a question or emailing an expert before you spend a lot of time thrashing about trying to fix a strange problem like Windows not recognizing your NXT in SAMBA mode.

John Hansen

[aagruntpuddock]

Well, well, well. I thought I was joining a scientific group so that I could learn more about using the NXT.

Instead I find it is a semi religious cult where the merest mention that you had a problem (which you solved quite quickly) calls down the wrath of the community against you!

Wishing you all a Good New Year, goodbye.

[mattallen37]

Sorry to offend you. I think John is suggesting that you state the known (relevant) facts to begin with, and not drag it out, keeping us guessing. Try getting the proper drivers for your computer, and it should prevent future computer-NXT problems .

As far as "a scientific group so that I could learn more about using the NXT", this is an online community comprised of many individuals, all with different strengths and weaknesses. Even people who are really advanced in some areas with the NXT sometimes ask questions, or opinions here. Nobody can know it all.

Just as with any other place, people here don't know what they haven't learned, and they can't give definite advice without knowing fully about a situation.

[mightor]

If this really was a science community then using words like "many people" without examples is a bit unscientific.

In any case, this thread is closed, the problem is solved and further discussion serves no one except to fan the flame war.

- Xander

[afanofosc]

FYI, I apologize to aagruntpuddock for coming across as a semi-religious fanatic. I don't think anything in this thread amounts to a flame war, however. I was trying to scientifically analyze the situation and provide detailed steps for a possible resolution to the root cause of what is a very unusual and very unlikely to be replicated by other users conundrum.

aagruntpuddock, please reconsider your departure! I will be much nicer, I promise.

John Hansen