Mindboards

I am a Mindstorms newbie, and until now I have found the NXT-G programming environment more than satisfying. Writing longer and more complex code, I have noticed that the NXT-G interface is beginning to:

- mess up my wires for no apparent reason (must rewire every time I open a program)
- sometimes won’t allow a beam to grow (blocks are getting stacked in a mess on top of each other)
- getting error messages complaining something’s wrong with hotwires when trying to move things around

So my question is: Is this the way it’s going to be? Are these normal symptoms? It seems that every time I try to edit my code, I have to spend a lot of frustrating time fixing things.

That's just the way it is. It was because of that, and other more severe symptoms (crashing...), that I switched to NXC (using BCC).

I still open NXT-G on occasion to help someone with their program, but almost never (perhaps once a quarter).

I really suggest you look into using NXC. You can do so much more than you can with NXT-G, and BCC is far lighter on your computer.

Yes, even with fairly small programs I found it could be frustrating and moved on to NXC.

I discovered later that NXT-G is programming as you change it.

Most languages wait until you have written your code and only start working on it when you select 'run' or 'compile'.

NXT-G modifies the code in the background every time you add a block or wire.

If you do not give it time to complete these re-writes, either by changing or exiting the program too quickly, it can get confused.

The larger the program the longer modifying the underlying code can take.

The answer is patience - if it is not responding just wait a few seconds.

There are some good tips about using NXT-G here (http://www.teamhassenplug.org/NXT/), as well as a neat addition which helps to remove broken wires.

If you don;t want to work with NXC, there are other visual options, like Matlab and Zenon(or so I heard). But I also recommend a text-based language.

I doubt that Matlab (only remote control, needs a PC host!) or Zenon (never heard - what about community? support?) would be a good choice.

I agree with mattallen37:
IMO, there is no alternative to NXC if you are a beginner.
In case you are already an advanced programmer, there are only 2 alternative options which are worth while to consider:
- nxtOSEK firmware, programmed by "real" ANSI C/C++ e.g. by gnu gpp compiler and the monster IDE "Eclipse"
- LeJOS firmware for Java if you already are experienced in Java (if you're not, I'd suggest to drop this option Java sucks! :) )

ROBOTC is also an option, which has a beginner's API called "Natural Language". You can find more info about ROBOTC here: [LINK].
Another option is LabView, for which there is a Student Version, you can find more info about that here: [LINK].
I have tried the zenon Science Package and I can assure you that it is not for the faint of heart. However, you can find more info about it here: [LINK].

Doc, just because you have never heard of it, does not make it a bad piece of software. The zenon Science Package software would probably be excellent for someone who already uses zenon and other COPA-DATA products for embedded software development. They have a forum and so far the people have been very helpful with answering my questions.

- Xander

Xander,
just as an opinion to clarify since I have been approached directly:
I admit that RobotC might be an option if one wants to buy money for a not-quite-C language, and if he will need a transitional "Natural Language".
I assume if one was already working with zenon he might already know about this Lego option but I assume too that this is not very likely in this case.
For someone who is already struggling with the "disconnection & spaghetti syndrome" of NXT-G I would not recommend to use another grafical environment like Labview instead.

Ah, when I said matlab, I think I meant labview. Anyway, there's also pbLua, which is nice and easy, but requires a custom firmware.

The only thing that really bothered me with pbLua is that while the REPL is very cool, it doesn't have an obvious way to store files.

you won't seriously recommend a Mindstorms newbie tu use pbLua...?

Thanks for all your comments, info and suggestions! When I started out, I wanted to learn NXT-G. Well, obviously because it came with the box and I wanted to be able to teach my kids something not overly advanced. Over the past couple of weeks I have enjoyed trying to “translate” NXC code to NXT-G to improve my tutoring skills. Like the cool “Minesweeper” described in this book:

http://tinyurl.com/72ku6oj

Apart from the weird NXT-G behavior, I am now beginning to reach the top of the NXT memory capacity with my code. I will try to use Myblocks more, and other tips. In the meantime, I would love to check out some of the text-based languages. From searching the net I get the feeling that NXC is very popular. RobotC on the other hand comes with a simulator. Are the two very similar in terms of syntax? Will I be able to switch between them, once I start to get the hang of one of them?